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tv   All In With Chris Hayes  MSNBC  June 23, 2014 5:00pm-6:01pm PDT

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stand with him, that running and hiding isn't an option? on this grotesque abdication of responsibility, i'm embarrassed by a congress i've grown up to respect almost to the point of reverence. and that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in with chris hayes" starts right now. good evening from new york. i'm chris hayes. we've got a big night tonight with the debut of our latest "all in america" series coming up shortly. but we begin tonight in iraq where secretary of state john kerry landed in baghdad today as the militant sunni group isis seized further territory over the weekend. isis has by numerous accounts taken multiple additional towns in iraq including three border crossings, one with neighboring jordan, and two keyboarder crossings with syria. further con sol datine consolid.
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in the kurdish town of jelula, a bbc reporter paul wood captures the chaos as kurdish forces are temporarily surrounded by isis fighters. >> guy, come with me, come with me, come with me. >> down here, down here, down here. okay, okay, okay. >> we are surrounded in jalula and qatar. you need to find the most senior commander you can find and get them to get the troop -- can you hear me? >> that fire fight isis was ultimately pushed back but seems increasingly to be the exception. as iraq teeters on the edge of breaking apart entirely, secretary kerry in baghdad today attempt a political solution.
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>> it is essential that rooek iraq's leaders form a generally inclusive government as rapidly as possible within their own constitutional framework. clearly if there is evidence that requires some kind of action prior to that process being completed, the president maintains the prerogative of making that decision. >> shia militias in non-isis dominated parts of the country in the south and around baghdad are arming themselves prepare to defend the city of baghdad and all this comes days before a july 1st deadline for those in power in iraq to form a new unity government. at home, a new poll found that 7 5% of americans say the iraq war was not worth the cost. joining me now, marie, deputy spokesperson for the state department. what would classify this as a successful trip? >> well, thanks for having me tonight, chris. secretary kerry is on the ground today talking to prime minister maliki, to a host of iraqi leaders about the next steps
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forward here. about how important it is for them to step up, to seize this moment, and to give their country a better future. we know that they need a new government. one that governs much more inclusively than they've been governing in the past, quite frankly. >> let me ask you this, though. it seems to me you're trying to thread a needle here, the secretary is which is to say at one level you don't want the new government to look like essentially a puppet of the u.s.. at the same time, you have the secretary flying in saying we need a new government, flying out with a new government. how can people think this is actually organically created? >> well, we're no telling the iraqis what kind of government they should have and who should be in it. what we're saying is you need to come together quickly, time is of the essence. what that looks like is really up to them. the process that starts as the secretary said today on july 1st. nothing we do can fix iraq's problems for it. >> what leverage does the u.s. have and the secretary have and
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the white house have over nuri al maliki and the current iraqi government? i mean, form a new government or else what? >> well, they have to form a new government by law. they had an election and that process is playing out. but i think what you've seen the president and the secretary say is we are going to stand by iraq and we're going to increase our assistance to iraq. we're going to give them more intelligence, more surveillance, more munitions. 300 military advisers, special forces guys who know how to fight isil. but as we do so, their leaders need to step up. we have been crystal clear about that. whether it's prime minister maliki, or anyone else, and that our assistance is going to be conditioned on them stepping up. >> the 300 military advisers the u.s. has announced it's sending to iraq, there's been a little bit of contradictory reports or at least ambiguous ones about the degree to which they have legal immunity. of course, legal immunity for american troops in iraq was the sticking point over which negotiations with the maliki government fell apart. as regarded residual force. do those 300 military advisers
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have legal immunity? >> well, as we said today, we exchanged diplomatic notes with the iraqi government and they have given us all the assurances we need that our 300 troops will have all the protections they need. it's a different force than we were talking about in 2011. it's not exactly the same situation as we were talking about then, but we would not send our troops into iraq without the necessary protections. we've been given those by the iraqi government who in this case as you know has invited us in unlike where we were in 2011. >> there are some reports indicating that much of the funding for isis or isil as it is sometimes referred to isudi necessarily the royal family but a lot of money flowing from saudi arabia to the insurgents in syria, to sunni fighters, to extremists there. has secretary kerry communicated with the saudi government who are our supposed allies about concerns about the money that's flowing from the kingdom to these conflict zones?
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>> well, we certainly talked to all of our partners about the concern that folks are funding isil. i think it's important to remember that most of isil's funding comes from criminal activity like we've seen recently in terms of the banks in mosul that they were able to get money from. and if we're concerned about private citizens anywhere around the region supplying isil, we have raised that as well. no indication that these governments are supporti ining . this is a threat to the entire region. folks around the region, saudi arabia and others are concerned about isil and are certainly working with us against this common threat. >> given it was just about a year ago when we seemed on the door of some kind of air strikes or military escalation in syria, does the secretary view the nonmilitary resolution of that through the chemical weapons deal as a policy success in his record as he surveys the region right now? >> well, chris, all you have to
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do is look at the fact today the final 8% of chemical weapons were taken out of syria and they will now be destroyed including on a u.s. ship. so if we look at the fact that the syrian regime can no longer use their declared chemical weapons against their own people, i think most people would agree that's a good thing. clearly there's more work to do, but those chemical weapons, again, the last of which left sere wyria today, can no longer used to threaten the people of syria which has been a good thing. >> marie harf, deputy spokesperson for the state department. >> thank you, chris. when looting broke out in iraq in 2002, donald rumsfeld then secretary of defense explained it away by saying, quote -- he was criticized for the comment because it was america who created the vak wcu of authority. the fall of old rigid regimes which provided at least the appearance to outsiders of
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stability brought with it a new kind of disorder, chaos and dangers. a reality now playing out in iraq and cross the region. in egypt, the jubilation of 2011 tahrir square protests which ended the 40-year reign of mubar mubarak, a return of authoritative means of dealing with citizens of the country. the new president, al sissi, led the coup to topple the civilian government led by mohamed morsi. on saturday, an egyptian court confirmed death sentences against the leader of the now-banned muslim brotherhood and 182 supporters of the group in a mass trial. and today, a judge sent three al jazeera journalists to jail handing down two serve-yeven-ye sentence and one ten-year sentence for aiding the brotherhood. three were held in cages throughout the trial and the
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evidence presented against them was frankly laughable including a bbc podcast, a news report made while snun there. an international outcry against the verdict saying it -- joining me now, sharif abdel kudis, correspondent for democracy now and fellow at the nation institute. he's on the phone tonight from cairo. can you give me the context of the initial charges brought against these al jazeera journalists? what was the situation like when they were apprehended and charged? >> prosecutors accused these journalists of conspireing with the muslim brotherhood which was designated a terrorist organization by egyptian authorities in september to spread false news and smear the country's reputation to bring down the military-backed government. i think we have to understand these charges and this very harsh verdict in the context of a wider crackdown on any and all
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opposition voices that have been increasing over the past year. tens of thousands of people have been arrested since morsi's ouster in july. the muslim brotherhood and its supporters have been the primary target, but the crackdown has broadened to encompass any defensive voices across the political spectrum including prominent activists who helped launch the 2011 resolution. the reason this verdict is so significant is because it stokes fears that the crackdown won't be limited to just opponents of the regime but to media outlets and journalists that it deems is carrying their message. and so what this really means is that in egypt, journalism can be a crime. >> the egyptian regime says essentially the judiciary in egypt is independent, this is not al sissi's decree but the verdict properly issued under due process of law by an independent judiciary, should we believe them? >>. >> well, as you mentioned, the
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evidence provided by the prosecution in the trial was indeed laughable. this included showing video footage that had nothing to do with egypt. some of it was part of a documentary from somalia. one of it was a music video. i mean, and, you know, egypt's judiciary has acted with a degree of independence in the past. but ever since morsi's ouster, they have appeared to be more than a willing partner in repression and have handed down extremely harsh verdicts including sentencing hundreds of people in mass trials to deaths and this sentence and this verdict after really a, you know, a laughable presentation of evidence by the prosecution, which they showed very uncontroversial footage which any journalist could have had,
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shows a message and little margin of freedom of expression, freedom of the press that has been continually shrinking over the past several months took a heavy blow with this verdict. >> under the mubarak regime, there were limited press freedoms there. are we seeing before our eyes the reconstitution of essentially mubarak 2.0 in the figure of al sissi? >> well, sissi still has to consolidate a regime and see going forward what is happening, but what we can say is since morsi's ouster here, been a de facto leader of the country since july 3rd. and over that period, we have seen one of the worst crackdowns and some of the harshest repression, harsher than during mubarak's time. with journalists target, egypt has been one of the top five -- it has become the third deadliest place in the world for a journalist to operate.
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we're seeing repression and arrests on a scale never before seen. we're seeing people not only being arrested but being sentenced to years in prison. and so it seems that sissi and the elements of the state that back him are using just repression in order to push forward their agenda. we'll have to see if that broadens out into other tools going forward. >> journalist sharif abdel kouddous, thank you very much. coming up, tomorrow is runoff day in the most hotly contested primary race in nation. a race that's already arrested in four arrests. now there's been one more. story on that, ahead. enturylinkd it partner, you'll experience reliable uptime for the network and services you depend on. multi-layered security solutions keep your information safe, and secure. and responsive dedicated support meets your needs, and eases your mind.
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coming up, we're back with another edition of our "all in america" series. this week we're bringing you stories you haven't seen anywhere else from georgia, chicago, north carolina. tonight we're starting in our own backyard. it's a story that challenges conventional wisdom about where segregation occurs and why. stay tuned for that. [ barks ] [ chuckles ] i'd do anything to keep this guy happy and healthy.
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tomorrow's runoff day in mississippi's republican senate primary. it's been, i think without question, the most bizarre and tensely fought race in the country and only getting more bizarre. this time with the appearance of a man who goes by the name scooby doo. more on that in a moment. first, yet another arrest made in a campaign that has seemingly been full of them only this time the suspect was on the other side. you may recall four supporters of tea party backed challenger chris mcdaniel were arrested for conspireing to break into a nursing home and photograph the ailing wife of six term incumbent senator thad cochran. a staffer on the cochran campaign has been arrested this
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time for allegedly stealing mcdaniel campaign signs. that's a standard dirty campaign trick but a sign of how bitter this race has become. yet another side. there's now a war on facebook over posts by thad cochran's daughter, kate, on her own page. quote, i think this is the reason so many seem swayed by my father's opponent. valued for his lack. lack of experience. he's not a career politician. lack of wisdom. relies solely on jesus, the cushion and common sense. lack of judgment. he vows to refuse federal moneys and try to impede legislation. i see these qualities as a disingenuous pose. the macdaniel respondseed by #thankyoukate. #who's #who #who'syadaddy? so, realizing there's a ceiling on their white support in republican primary and they desperately need to expand the
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electorate, cochran campaign has apparently made the strategic decision to woo african-american voters to state's open primary. a white republican courting black voters in mississippi. further evidence the race is completely bonkers. "times" record the last week a super pac supporting cochran is paying african-american leaders to lift black turnout. over the weekend a mysterious robo call went out in mississippi which appeared to target black voters. >> hello, neighbors. the time has come to make a stand and say no to the tea party. no to their obstruction. no to their disrespectful treatment of the first african-american president. >> in response, mcdaniel supporters are predictably an lettic. conservatives seized on allegations that an operative named steve scooby doo warren bought votes from the black community. the mcdaniel camp is preparing
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to send in poll watchers at tomorrow's runoff. joining me now, derek johnson, president of the mississippi state conference of the naacp. mr. johnson, your reaction to hearing poll watchers be uttered as a tactic to guard the integrity of the vote in your state of mississippi? >> well, i have two reactions. one is akin to voter suppression methods that was attempted 50 years ago when organizers created the mississippi project we now call freedom summer. the second reaction i have is the republican party fostered this type of animus against african-americans now is beginning to bite them back. and so it's hard to tame the tiger that you have now released as it seeks to bite you. and so it is both comical and unfortunate at the same time that mississippi is looking in the rearview mirror of what happened 50 years ago only to realize that many of the voter
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suppression methods are now about to be reconstituted. >> okay. so if i hear you correctly, my question as an outside observer is, from your perspective when you view thad cochran making this appeal, it's fairly explicit. we have reporting, a man by the name of bishop sr. hired to do black outreach. this is a strategic decision to recruit black voters to vote for thad come ra thad cochran. what do you make of that strategic decision? >> in politics the person who gets the most votes win. the cochran campaign apparently needs more votes to win. it was shocking across the state of mississippi the night of the primary to realize not only was cochran behind, but he did not get enough votes to overcome chris mcdaniels. in fact, we almost had a primary election where a longtime serving republican member who
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has been a very good member in terms of making sure federal dollars flow into the state of mississippi would have been taken out. although every statewide elected official, republican in the state of mississippi, endorsed them. it is an indictment on the republican party in the state of mississippi. >> the tea party patriots have released an ad as a kind of rebuttal to the argument thad cochran and supporters have been making in reaching out for the black vote. i want to play you this ad and get your reaction. take a look. >> thad cochran is basically saying look at all i've done for the black community here, i've given you food stamps, be happy and vote for me because i've given you something. in his mind, why not just go to the last people on the list he ever thought to campaign to? i support chris mcdaniel because of his stances on gun rights, on property rights, on debt, taxes and spending. >> let me just reiterate the strangeness of this where we are. a day before this election, in which this bitterly contested
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republican primary in perhaps the most conservative state in the entire nation is apparently being waged on a fight for the hearts and minds of mississippi's black voters. >> well, there's a limit on the number of extreme republicans in the state. obviously there's a limit on the number of republicans in the state. mississippi have the highest percentage of african-americans than any other state. we are hovering around 38% african-american population, 33% of the electorate. and with the population 18 years or below is over 50%. so we are vastly becoming a majority/minority state. in order for a candidate to win, they have to begin to abiel across communities. and that's what's taking place. unfortunately, cochran's voting record reflects one of rand paul. we've been seeking support for the voting rights amendment. cochran, if you look at his voting record, naacp, he scores an "f" like all the other
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republicans. in terms of an african-american community, there has been very little policy to support it, but on the other hand, chris mct mcdaniels is for worse. for african-americans, it's a value judgment. which way do we go? is it the lesser of two evils or do we stay out of a fight that's not our fight? those are the options that we have. >> can you imagine anything from how this last part of the race has played out actually translating into anything substantive? when either of these men may or may not be sent to represent mississippi in the senate? >> well, you know, i look at absentee ballots. we had just over 18,000 absentee ballots cast in a primary election. the most recent report, only about 19 absentee ballots that has been reported for the runoff elections. only a different of about 1,000 additional votes. although that's leave-outs from african-americans, that remains to be seen. i think that's the true gauge. will the efforts to increase participation in the primary
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runoff, primary, include more african-americans? that is something we would like to see. i have not seen a lot of evidence of that. i've seen a lot of efforts to reach out. >> right. >> i've seen a lot of efforts to respond to those efforts. >> that's going to be really fascinating question to look into once we get the exit polling or returns tomorrow. derrick johnson from the naacp of mississippi. thank you. >> thank you. coming up, what's the biggest change ever to the national geographic atlas to the world besides the breakup of the u.s.s.r.? i'll tell you next. plus, our second installment of the "all in america" series. that's still ahead.
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behold, children, the majesty of springfield glacier. crane your neck skyward to behold its icy glory. >> what happened to the glacier? it's nearly melted. this must be due to global warming. >> young lady, the federal government's position on global warming is that it does not exist. this glacier is doing just fine. >> no, it isn't. it's a lump of sludge. look at it. >> i have a little girl just like you at home. that's where she stays. at home. >> you know what other glaciers aren't doing so great? well, actually most of them. national geographic announcing their upcoming atlas is going to feature, quote, the biggest visible change other than the breakup of the ussr. that change is a whole lot less arctic ice sitmuch of the ice in
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their previous atlas is, well, no longer there. that's the bad news. although we do have some good news in regards to climate. you may remember prominent republican former treasury secretary hank paulson, may be the guy behind the most unpopular bailout in maybe not necessarily your go-to climate policy expert with a sort of terrible brand of a name, but i digress. anyway hoo anyway, he's weighing in big-time. "the new york times" op-ped saying in no uncertain terms we need a carbon tax. also good news, supreme court today which largely upheld the environmental protection agency's ability to regulate greenhouse gases like carbon pollution. the best news on the climate front comes today from senate majority leader harry reid who challenged republicans who were flirting with another government shutdown this time over the apa's new carbon regulations saying basically bring it on. and while it may be perverse to root for a government shutdown, i can think of nothing more clarifying on the stakes of this
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and see why 92% of our members plan to stay for life. ongoing "all in america." original on the ground reporting from across the country behind the 21st century color line. it's been 60 years since supreme court ruled on brown versus the board of education, striking down formal segregation in schools across the country. we start this week in one of the most segregated school systems in country. it may not be where you think it is. >> desegregation did more to close the achievement gap than any other school reform. ever. it worked. >> this is a story about a school desegregating 60 years after brown versus the board of education. that 1954 supreme court ruling set off one of the most
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contentious battles in this nation's racial history. >> state and local police were unable to control a mob which reacted in bitter violence on learning that nine negroes entered the school as students. >> rothe resistance was led by e governor of arkansas. >> we are now an occupied territory. >> it would become a rallying cry for segregationists across the country. >> i see a political organization based on racial nationalists. a third party based on race. >> state by state, district by district, school by school, desegregation came to the south, often met with bloody resistance. >> negro james meredith attended classes at the university of mississippi today. violent rioting broke out. two persons lost their lives. more than 75 were injured. >> meanwhile, most schools in north remained segregated. >> we have seen the north perfectly willing for the south to accept change in its social pattern is often quite reluctant
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to accept change in its own. >> a decade later, the fight to integrate schools famously exploded in boston. >> i don't think that this country can take too much more appeasement to the blacks at the expense of the whites. >> efforts to integrate boston public schools by busing white and black children from the area schools to other schools were greeted with violence, boycotts. >> thousands of whites marched through south boston today to protest court-order busing for racial integration. black students were bused out of six south boston schools at noon today because school officials feared for their safety and the schools were closed. >> after the busing battles, '70s and '80s policymakers largely abandoned the desegregation effort and the supreme court was there to help them. in a series of decisions over decades, the court diluted the holding of brown. restricting what methods schools could use to achieve racial integration. finally, in 2007, the roberts court struck down a voluntary plan to integrate seattle and
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louisville schools. roberts writing that the way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race. now, 60 years after the supreme court ruled on brown versus the board of education, many of the country's school districts remain as segregated as they were in 1954. many of the most iconic images of school integration came from the south, but today according to the ucla civil rights project, the south is the least segregated region for black students. and in fact, new york state is now the most segregated system in america in large part due to new york city. >> for an african-american student, 50% are going to school only with other african-american students. and the same thing is true for latino students. we've pretty much come to accept de facto segregation as being the norm. >> for the last ten years, one of those de facto segregated schools has been park slope collegiate.
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located right in the middle of park slope, one of the whitest, most affluent neighborhoods in brooklyn. >> we often say we were in park slope but not of park slope. >> park slope collegiate sits in the old jon jay school building. in 1963, the school was at the center of the fight to desegregate new york city schools. race riots erupted on the campus in 1964. >> so how's he using imagery right here? >> today teachers at the school say the stigma remains. >> our school has a legacy of violent racial stereotyping coming from the neighborhood. >> there were a lot of park slope blogs that said our kids were animals and they don't bring book bags and if they brought book bags, i'm sure there are guns in the book bags. >> she has been principal of park slope collegiate. for nine years the school was racially diverse but not integrated. >> we had students from eastern europe but didn't have students from neighborhood or american
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born white students. >> every year in new york city, as fifth graders graduate from elementary school, there's a mad scramble for parents to get their children into a so-called good public middle school. students aren't just assigned their nearest school, they actually have to apply to get in. for the last decade, white parents in park slope did not apply to collegiate. >> i would venture to say that most people in park slope have not been inside our building. >> last year, all that changed. a group of ten white families got together to do something no one in the neighborhood had ever done before. they looked into sending their kids to the school right in their own backyard. one of those parents was katie mosher smith. >> the people that chose to come chose it because we saw that it was something that was going do be cultivated. >> this year, for the first time in the history of the school, the sixth grade class at park slope collegiate is truly integrated. >> my old school, it was mostly
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hispanics, so i didn't meet a lot of different people. >> i guess it was like a school because it brings us all together as a community, and i really like that. >> do you feel like, you're, like, learning things from meeting them? >> yeah, my one friend teaches me spanish which i think is so fun. >> turns out, the kids are learning all kinds of stuff. >> kids understand there's different possibilities. there's different lifestyles. there's different choices people make. there's different things people privilege or value. that happens all the time. >> casey robinson, a parent whose son attends collegiate, has seen the influx of white neighborhood students in the building bring not only more diversity but also more resource. do you feel like, oh the city starts paying attention, like funds start to flow, stuff starts getting done when there's a certain kind of parent who's got their kid there. do you feel that's true? >> yeah, but you can't get around it because it's true. >> right. >> it's not something that you want to sugar coat and say that's not true. it is true. >> in less than a year,
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collegiate has gone from having no white students to worrying about being an entirely white neighborhood school in the very near future. the school now worries about the students of color being pushed out of the school as white families in the neighborhood rush toward the entrance. >> ten years. they've never been very large. now we can't fit everybody in. and interestingly enough, most of the parents on tours, over 90% are white. >> parents in the surrounding park slope neighborhood are increasingly interested in the school they once shunned. >> i meet people, you're the principal of park slope collegiate. i hear that's a really great school. if you asked them a year ago, they would have said, i've heard that's a really bad school. and we're the same school that we were a year ago with the exception of ten students. >> park slope collegiate, the school that had trouble attracting a single white kid from the neighborhood, is facing a new challenge. how to avoid becoming a
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predominantly white neighborhood school. and that's not an anomaly. the fact is 60 years after brown, one truth has become very clear. in the absence of constant vigilance, dedicated principals, parents, teachers, and policymakers, our schools will segregate. the integration of park slope collegiate is a story of a specific school in a specific neighborhood. all across the country there are schools grappling with how best to integrate and stay integrated. coming up, i'll be joined by someone who says cultural dexterity is the interest to reintegrating our public schools. what that is and how we can achieve it, ahead. during the day, we generate as much electricity as we can using solar. at night and when it's cloudy, we use more natural gas. this ensures we can produce clean electricity whenever our customers need it. ♪
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we're back. talking about how american schools resegregated.
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joining me now, nicole hannah jones, reporter for propublica. she's been contributing to propublica's special series "segregation now." sheryl cashin, law professor at georgetown university, author of "the failures of integration" and "place not race." let me start with you, nicole. i thought this quote from gary orefield, director of the civil rights project, to the "usa today" in setting up how it is 60 years later we have schools as segregated as they are was pretty succinct. he said "the truth is we tried for a litt while, we succeeded and we gave up." is that about right? >> yeah. that's right. when i set out to write about resegregation, i wanted to tell the story through three generations of one family. because from a grandfather to the granddaughter we've given up. i think that's the truth. there was one, a brief period of time, lasted a couple of decades where we really tried and had a lot of success in the south and then we moved on.
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>> why did we give up, sheryl? >> because it's hard. and also mainly because the federal courts, the supreme court, sent the signal to lower courts that it was time to get out of the business of policing school desegregation. i think a lot of parents were frustrated with forced busing and the tension around that. >> the conversation has felt like it's either forced busing or nothing essentially because we had this sort of peak moment, this very, very intense clash, particularly in boston but around the country around busing. policymakers were left the impression that we either just wave our hands and don't decide to do this or do forced busing which no electorate is going to put up with, and so seem, right, nikole? >> for one, i don't like to use the word forced busing. i think it's a very political
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term. most school kids have ridden buses for as long as there have been school buses and it was once it became a tool for integration that we had a problem with it. kids ride buses every day. i do think it's clear that no one is willing to really do that anymore. so we do have to come up with other solutions. >> do you think part of this has to do with -- the thing that was so interesting to me in new york was what you see is in the absence of a plan to desegregate schools, in the absence of policy explicitly agitating for that, there's a million different ways that self-segregation will happen. that segregation will happen as a natural process. and i was so impressed with the folks at park slope collegiate who were being very intentional l about trying to maintain an integrated space, but they're rolling a rock up hill because there's so many things happening in a social level in terms of how new york is divided, in terms of how our society works that pushes toward segregated schools. sheryll? >> this is what's unfortunate. that's bigger constituency out there for integration than there
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are integrated pace spaces. >> that's a great point. >> city governments don't give enough incentive and support for parents who want diversity for their kids. i often hold up the example of hartford and the surrounding region. through a lawsuit and multiracial coalition of city and suburban parents, that region, that region has built 48 magnate schools that allow kids from all different backgrounds, particularly disadvantaged kids to access high quality schools that are decoupled from where they live and it works. >> we've seen -- that's one model that's been successful. however, we've seen other models that were fairly successful that the roberts court -- these were voluntary models. the parents united case which i should say the principal of park
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slope collegiate referenced. she knows exactly where legal lines are of what the schools can and cannot do. voluntary systems of parents, black and white, latino, different races who came together and said let's come up with a voluntary plan to have our kids attend desegregated schools. the supreme court comes in and says, no, that's the unconstitutional. >> basically if we want race to go away, we need to stop acting like race still exists. the way to stop discriminating on basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race. the problem with that, we know there's a great deal of housing discrimination. residential segregation drives school segregation. if we don't do zhing to break the patterns up, we continue the disadvantage so in student many. >> obviously i think we're committed from a sort of moral perspective, from a democratic perspective, to not having separate but equal schools, right? or separate but unequal as the
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brown holding makes very clear. but do we know from the research, are there tangible benefits that occur to the kids that are attending segregated schools as opposed to desegregated ones? >> absolutely. there's 40 years of research that show that low income and disadvantaged kids do much better in integrated middle class schools. poor kids in high poverty schools on average are two years behind kids in middle class schools. >> wow. >> meanwhile, more advantage kids, middle class kids, are not harmed by being exposed to poor kids nor are they harmed -- in fact, they benefit. there's research that shows they benefit from being exposed to kids of all colors. diversity, well resourced integrates schools work for all kids. >> this is a really important point. the way the busing debate got framed -- there's a zero set of fixed good school chairs and we're going to come in and decide who gets to sit in those
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chairs. people lost their minds. like, oh, you just took my kids from one of the good school seats and put them in one of the bad school seats. the research suggest s it's the opposite of zero sum. there are gains from everyone put into desegregated, integrated environments, right? >> that's right. i think that doesn't get talked about nearly enough. it's always talked about that black and brown kids will benefit and seldom talked about the white kids benefit from integration as well. >> exactly. >> i think what's also important, it's not that black kids can't learn if they're only sitting with black kids. brown was about resources. separate has never been equal for a single day in this country. that continues to be the truth. >> yet the striking thing to me, sheryll about the conversation we have about educational equity, it's a pre-brown discussion. when you talk about closing the achievement gap, the terminology to use, that just presumes we will have largely segregated schools and we want to make them equal though they're going to be separate. that is in many senses across
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the partisan divide, ideological divide, that's the conversation we're having in this country about educational equity right now. >> it's unfortunate that not enough people have just acknowledged that integration is much cheaper than trying to turn around high poverty schools. only 1% of high poverty schools succeed. >> right. >> and meanwhile, integration is cheaper and it works for everyone, and by the way, only 42% of all americans today live in a middle class neighborhood. there are a lot of struggling people of all colors who want access to quality. >> yep. >> and that's part of the reason i'm such a champion for magnate schools. >> yeah, it's a really good point, right? we think about resources, think about it in terms of zero sum. we have a solution the literature tells us that works quite well that's staring us in the face. coming up, preview of
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another story we're bringing you this week on "all in america." we went to chicago to find out why a murder there disappeared. that's next. [ male announcer ] new gain flings!
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good second quarter and everybody said it's the third quarter during the summer that's really going to measure how we're doing. and in june we were down in shootings and murders. july the same thing. august the same thing. >> so far murders are down 26% from last year to the lowest number since 1965. shootings, down 24%. >> we're not declaring victory. we're not declaring success. we're declaring progress. >> that progress continued, culminating in a year-end press conference announcing a different jaw-dropping reality. >> chicago is on track to have the lowest violent crime rate since 1972 and the lowest overall crime rate since 1972. and the lowest murder rate since 1967. >> even in those neighborhoods with the most shootings and murders, police statistics indicate that violent crime rate has fallen. a new problem for city officials is that affected residents don't believe the numbers. >> still people getting killed. still people getting shot every
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day. >> do i think it's safer? i just think -- i think it's the same. >> i come in the daytime and back at home at night. >> we're not going to rest until people feel the reality of these numbers. >> days later, the chicago police department reclassified the homicide investigation of tiara groves as a noncriminal death investigation. that means the 20-year-old found with evidence she'd been bound and gagged in a warehouse, whose death certificate reads homicide to this day, was not counted in 2013's homicide numbers. and the family is still waiting for answers. >> it's just, it's a nightmare. she's just gone. just like that. she's gone. and i tell anybody to cherish their loved ones while they can. because it's just like she's
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just totally disappeared out of our life. she's gone. she's just gone. >> our investigative report into chicago, its racial history, its murder rate and why some people decided to scrutinize the city's crime stats air later this week on "all in america behind the color line." "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> good evening, chris. that looks incredible. all right. thank you. thanks to you at home for joining us this hour. okay. so surely this is not the first time this has happened. surely this has happened before. somewhere. it's america. we have a lot of elections. big country. has to have happened somewhere. maybe it's even happened before in a united states senate race, but if it has happened before, i have to be honest with you, all my years watching politics, all my years reporting on this stuff, i have never heard about something like this happening before. for me, this is the first time i have ever heard a candidate for u.s. senate, indeed, an incumbent united states senator, go out to a campaign e


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